All humors aside… ;(

Hi Everyone,

tl;dr; I’ve messed up majorly and need to revamp the infrastructure; meaning further delaying any hopes of releasing ANYTHING. Blame lies solely on me as I had contracted the serious case of “Thomas the Steam Engine”-itis.

That said, things probably aren’t that bad; I’m just so deep into this hole that I’ve dug the project into, I certainly can’t see the light of day.

Call me, Mole…  Mr. Mole.

— Long Missive —

I have taken up the mantle of the person who will bring bad news. (Could be good news, depending on your point of view, I guess).

But first, a confession.

I screwed up. I admit it. In the past, our old infrastructure’s CI was manageable; just had to fix up some code. But now, things have become untenable as the current build process is completely incompatible with the current CI code and changing the whole backend codebase is requires understanding the current build process (which has changed dramatically since Mozilla moved to using TaskCluster).
(NB: No.. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not blaming Mozilla. Just saying that *I* can’t keep up with their changes, which probably speaks volumes of my competencies and delusional thought process.) So what is needed is revamping the whole CI code to make it work.

That said, since time is of the essence, I’ve consulted with the rest of the guys and we’re moving to Jenkins, since revamping the old CI code would require some hacking at an already Frankenstein-like code, so the technical debt needs to be paid.

Is it the end of the world? No. I’m just particularly unhappy that we’re in this situation; but hindsight is always 20/20. So yes, this means any future releases will depend on getting the whole build process encoded into whatever way Jenkins requires.

Also note that SeaMonkey needs to completely stop relying on Mozilla’s infrastructure (*every single thing*, including this blog, bugzilla… you name it.. we need to be off it) by end of the year.

Anyway, I sincerely apologize for the mess; both to every single one of SeaMonkey’s users (both past and present) and to my fellow devs (again, both past and present).   As part of my defense, last year, I thought (with the delusions of competencies) moving to Azure wouldn’t be that problematic and while I did get a ‘running’ (though not really building) infra, everything went crazy near the end of last year as I had realized the required builds and branches needed new tool chains; and building these toolchains required a lot of time and energy.  At the end… a failed attempt at keeping up to date with the whole build process.

So… the project is at a standstill.

In any event, I would like to thank everyone for their support in the past and continual support and infinite patience as this project continues to climb this steep (or as Richie from “Bottom” would say, “f’ing” vertical) hill/mountain.

*sigh*

:ewong

NB: In other words… Live and Learn.

64 Responses to All humors aside… ;(

  1. Aw man. 🙁 Don’t give up!

    • Adding my +1 to this:
      Don’t give up.
      Keep up humor because it’ll make it easier.
      As for me, I will wait till your next post, where you let us know you did it 🙂

    • Please keep on making SeaMonkey the great browser & successor to Mosaic / Netscape / Mozilla ..that I know of in existence.! I still use it to edit my website, and am totally spoiled to having my menus and preferences like they’ve been kept. Active, relevant and useful.!!
      And, customized to a T with both Themes & Extensions that others have made for it over time too.!

  2. The massive work you do is appreciated more than you know, by more
    than you imagine. I wish you well in your endeavors. Sure wish I could
    code and help.

  3. Just in case you ever consider an alternative to Jenkins…

    As per may personal experience, TeamCity has way much more to offer. Once they started giving 100 agents for free, there’s little reason in sticking with Jenkins.

    Anyway, it’d be good to take a look at your “final” Jenkins configuration. I’d try to “port” it to TeamCity and/or Travis CI.

    Good luck!

  4. We’re all human, it’s alright!

  5. 1 – Set SeaMonkey up on a Gitlab repo.

    2- Build it against the Unified XUL Platform.

    3 – Profit!

    At least that’s how I would envision the project for the next years. Good luck, folks!

  6. Don’t know squat about the technology but have always loved SeaMonkey because of its speed. When you make it happen, it’ll be great. Good luck.

  7. I have been using Seamonkey since it was released in 2005 ish and it is still my daily email and browser client for which I thank you and all the devs for the upkeep over the years. If you get things on the go with the build process etc. that would be great but if not, its not the end of the world even though it will be sadly missed.

    One thought I have, what about joining forces with another FF fork such as Pale Moon?

  8. Does that affect your ability to do localized builds? Asking if doing 120 builds differs from doing 4.

  9. Axel, there is still a problem doing localized build with extensions. Tracked in bug 1231349. Workaround was/is to not include cZ, debugQA, DOMi and Lighning. Lightning is now working. Updated cZ and DOMi are provide for a separate install. Now configurable at build time in 2.53 and up so we can do local builds just fine.

  10. I am thinking, i’am a retired C/C++ developer with plenty of time, and looking for a C/C++ job to fill my time. Is Seamonkey written in C/C++ then i could maybe help.

  11. No problemo, everyone make mistakes. 😉
    Courage…

  12. There is someone compiling 2.49.5 currently:

    https://www.wg9s.com/comm-esr/

  13. i agree, i’d go with Github or even Gitlab, i dont think there is many projects that even bother with Jenkins anymore
    but on another Note, does this mean there will not be a 2.49.5 release?

  14. Pingback: Další vydání SeaMonkey se zdrží – Mozilla.cz

  15. I also use x since the beginning and would like to continue using it. Unfortunately our donations are small, but I also hope others support the project. I keep my fingers crossed that everything goes well.
    Do not let hope drive.

  16. There are only some c and c++ parts in suite itself. Most is in mailnews which nowadays is mostly covered by the Thunderbird devs.

    FRG

  17. Thanks to you and all the other members of the team, I’m currently running a perfectly stable SeaMonkey. All the websites I use work flawlessly, as well as a good adblocker (uBlock Origin). Need I say I’m greatly grateful?
    Hurray! \o/

  18. Honestly, you should make usage of the UXP platform and use that for continuing with Seamonkey.

    The choices are… giving up, giving up all what made Seamonkey and become a Firefox clone or keep what you have and help building a platform.

    That should honestly be a no-brainer. Instead you are going a way which will lead you nowhere. You should ask yourself the question.. do you want to survive or not?

    It is as simple as that.

    Greetings,

    Sam Hauser
    Team-leaeder/organizer non-profit White-Hat anti-abuse investigations online collective

  19. I.
    Great project
    Big thanks
    So much
    Time, energy, competence, power
    Given
    To me

    Who am I to deserve it

    II.
    each river flows
    on his own pace
    spring it is whirling
    steady the summer
    comes winter it might
    even seem to stand still

    earth goes round
    and round each day
    it doesn’t halt
    it doesn’t haste

    comes winter comes spring.
    the river flows on his pace

    Thank you very much. Don’t feel bad since you’re right. Take all the time you feel it (and maybe you) needs. SeaMonkey is great, very useful, and mature, as it is.

    The world we live in has a built-in release cycle of one year, at the minimum. Many plants and other creatures run an even longer one. Not to speak of Mars or far outer planets, or the universe itself, for that matter 😉

    Our man’s world tends to forget about such important base facts too often nowadays, I think.

    I would really like to be of some more help to the project other than appreciating and thankfully using it’s results, but I feel to have neither the competence nor time resources to do so at the moment.

    Wish you all the best, and that you may have fun with what you are doing on it, still and again.

  20. We all appreciate all the effort you and the small cadre of developers have put into saving SeaMonkey. You are the lineal descendant of Netscape Communicator and Mozilla Suite. I have been using this fine suite since beta days and whenever you are able to update it, I shall be a happy camper.

  21. Hold on!
    Please, hold on!
    SeaMonkey is an useful and indeed very useful suite, unique and undisputed heir of the glorious Netscape experience.
    I am absolutely convinced that, perhaps small (and I really do not think so much), but tenacious and devoted to this extraordinary identity, an entire community hopes that SeaMonkey overcomes this and even other moments of difficulty, with patience, waiting for new versions and developments and with great gratitude for those who deepen their energies in this project that has its roots in the time of information technology and the discovery of the network around the world.
    COURAGE! HOLD ON!

  22. I like the Seamonkey very much. It is an all-in-one-program that makes it very easy to work with as a blind user of Linux.

  23. I like the seamonkey very much as a blind user of Linux. It is a good all-in-one-program beeing able to import thunderbird settings.

  24. I appreciate your efforts and keep at it. Still a great project! A great program and hope you can get the structure manageable again. Firefox and Chrome update so fast and then come with a new version number. Firefox messed you guys up a lot when they went to rapid release and with Quantum. One step at a time! :)!

    • Not only with Mozilla Firefox, but also with Microsoft Windows 10, George.
      MS is also doing “rapid releases” of Windows 10 by releasing two feature updates per year since 2017.

      There are no guarantees that Seamonkey 2.49.x will continue to run on future feature upgrades of Windows 10 like the upcoming 19H1, 19H2 & 20H1 versions.

      • Thanks for explaining this, EP :). I run Seamonkey on Linux on a by now old computer, so I will just see how things will go. I’ll use it as long as it will run 🙂

  25. Stop beating dead Seamonkey! You just need to end this project and add a new menu button called “Run Thunderbird” to Firefox .

  26. Hey, I just wanted to say that Seamonkey is f*cking fantastic and you are awesome and thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for making this project so amazing. No one is gonna be mad if development slows — users like me love seamonkey in part because it is “old-fashioned” in so many great ways.

  27. oh well, it happens sometimes.

    in 2nd half of 2019 (likely starting july 2019), i will no longer use any SM 2.49.x version and will permanently run at least an SM 2.53 version from wg9s on all my PCs that have Seamonkey

  28. I too am a fan of SeaMonkey. I love the email/browser interaction and I never use the composer. It seems that Microsoft 10 will no longer honor SeaMonkey as the default Browser. Is there a way to get this back? It still honors SeaMonkey as my mail handler.

    Thanks for all the effort over the years. I have been using this essentially since netscape was not longer a choice.

  29. Thank you very much for your continued efforts to support the SeaMonkey suite!
    Don’t take it too serious – we all make mistakes.
    The earth will continue spinning.

    Wishing you great stamina – we are patiently waiting for the update!

  30. All the dudes and dudettes who are contributing to this project, I believe in you now as I have been for nearly the past decade or so of using SeaMonkey from version 1.X (I really don’t remember the exact version as it was so long ago, when I was still not using Linux as my main OS, it’s really hard to admit it now, but Linux has been my main OS of choice since 2013 or so)…
    At any rate I believe in you, and wishing you all the best, and looking forward for at least another decade or two of using your next iterations…
    Actually just a suggestion but if the entire “Under the hood” has changed, won’t it be a good sign to jump +1 in the major version to 3? Or go the Winamp style where they skipped a number from 3 to 5 because they decided that’s how good their new version is compared to its previous incarnation…. Sorry if there any typos, I tried to type really fast after another night shift…

  31. Björn Johansson

    Seamonkey is the only web browser I can use on my Linux system at the moment that feels fast enough and clean! I’ve used this web browser for a very long time and even my bank here in Sweden accepts it, so far!

    If you feel troubled about making any big upgrades, just focus on the small security updates instead, it’s OK i.m.o. Keep it small instead of doing nothing and continue to share what’s happening to you and the project on this blog!

    Many more appreciate this web browser than people who have comment on your blog, and I do wish you luck in the future and keep sharing what’s up so the whole project don’t end up in a digital grave somewhere. Thank you!

  32. Andrew McGlashan

    Anything you can do to avoid the big guys, the better. I am no fan of AWS, GCP, Azure, Apple, Dropbox, Github or any other entity that takes control away from myself.
    So, if at all possible, avoid all those players and stand alone as best you can.

    Relying on ANYTHING Microsoft, irregardless of their “apparent” support for Open Source, is just more that Microsoft can profit from. Heck knows they profit far too much extorting users of Linux, one way or another through patents and probably more.

    That being said, it is critical that software gets updates so that security holes and other problems are addressed in a timely manner. Therefore the immediate goal is to be sure that the product is made as safe as possible ASAP of course.

  33. I did not understand everything, but I am with you. Thanks as always.

  34. Damn it, I hate Mozilla and Firefox so God damn much.

    You keep on doing your best, man. It’s not your fault the software industry became a disgusting piece of shit. You blaming yourself for a fucked-up toolchain only shows your professionalism.

    Sorry for the expletives if they’re not your thing.

  35. I’ve loved and used Netscape/Seamonkey since 1998, and deeply appreciate you. What are now lost are the composer page, search, etc. While the e-mail has improved. Please bring back the composer page. I did all my websites with it. http://www.florin.ms, http://www.umilta.net, http://www.ringofgold.eu

  36. Thank you very much for what you’re doing, dude(s). I hope you will get over problems and bring out a new release of my favorite browser.

  37. So hoping it is restored. Have used Netscape, then SeaMonkey, for over 20 years and love them for the fantastic composer, http://www.umilta.net, http://www.florin.ms, so hope to get it back. Mail still works fine, in fact better than in the past, but one can no longer search and see in code mode or compose, and this is a great loss. Will remain loyal. The programme is wonderful and can be again!

  38. Feodor-Franz Faika

    Hi all!
    I’m using SeaMonkey since 2009. It came with Puppy Linux by default and it does with EasyOS version 1.0.14 nowadays. As an alternative for SM 2.49.4 I’m running Pale Moon version 28.4.0. Pale Moon runs well on my Linux platforms like SeaMonkey.

    @the SeaMonkey coder
    If you cannot update your SeaMonkey code you should really have a closer look into Pale Moon. Do not waste time and power on a ‘dead horse’.

  39. SeaMonkey is the most used browsing tool on my home machine, and the second most used one on my work machine — if I add the usage counts of Firefox and Edge into one to fill the top position.

    I just like it, and I’m very happy with SeaMonkey as it is. And that is very unlikely to change anytime soon.

    I have to thank you and the other contributors very much for all the time and energy you put into this project. Just take any time it needs to bring it into proper shape to go on again.

  40. HI to Everyone!

    Still have da’ faith that SeaMonkey will live on and KUDOS to all the developers at the SeaMonkey council! 🙂
    Pale Moon is not the way to go. It relies heavily on Firefox code( a lot of it being older Firefox code) and a lot of sites don’t recognize it. FACT. Also the developer of Pale Moon is very arrogant and insists that there is no fault when sites don’t recognize Pale Moon. SeaMonkey is far superior than Pale Moon in my honest and professional opinion.
    Don’t listen to the naysayers and KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK
    Long Live SeaMonkey! 😀

  41. Id it’s really such a problem being in Mozilla’s camp, I wouldn’t mind SeaMonkey operating under Basilisk’s wings, as long as we keep it separate from the FF interface 😉

  42. Mozilla has decided not to allow the Dissenter app to be available for Firefox.
    Is SeaMonkey autonomous enough that it could be made available for SeaMonkey anyway?

  43. Thank you for all the work that you do. Been a fan and user of SeaMonkey since the 2.0 version days.

  44. Heads up! I use Seamonkey [and Netscape Navigator before] since Netscape 1 somewhere end 1990s. So I hope you can get the problems solved because I and [meanwhile] my 3 kids rely on this ;). Thank you for your hard work in the past to get this running! 🙂 [Don´t wanna use another browser anytime in the future.] Perhaps you will get more help since this “ping” parameter which Firefox is going to use seems not to be welcomed by all users. All the best – we all will chill and wait all the time it takes – even if it takes 2 years. 😉

  45. Have a look at Pale Moon. The developer doesn’t have the best personality but it is pretty good.

  46. I forget what I used before Mosaic, but whatever it was I forgot about it as soon as I discovered Netscape Navigator. Then Netscape Communicator, then Mozilla Suite, then Seamonkey. I simply cannot imagine life without Seamonkey now — there really is no substitute. Sorry I can’t offer any real help, but my mind is still basically a Fortran/Pascal/Algol-68 one, unable to handle object-orientation, modern languages and shared development repositories. All I can do is to say how much I have appreciated your efforts in the past, and wish you every success in the future.

  47. I’m so sorry to see SM in such dire straits. 🙁
    But, considering the fact that Mozilla has abandoned you, times and times again, why not cut your ties with them? The more logical extension of SM’s lifetime would be to use UXP / Goanna and continue as the same XUL software suite as before; much more logical than trying to adapt to Quantum Gecko and that with diminished resources you have…

    Unfortunately I believe the future looks quite bleak for SM if you keep insisting on the Quantum path – that SM may never be completed, or worse, if it does get completed it may be a completely different SM, alien to all of us who know it and love it!

    If this means the death of SM, I can only hope it will live on in a fork like UXP based Borealis Navigator, or another one. And those forks will no doubt stay true to the current SM look&feel…

  48. Hang in there. I made a small 30 Euro donation to help the cause.
    I’ve been using SeaMonkey since the Netscape Communicator beta days on Windows NT and now on FreeBSD with the same un-corrupted mail spool from March 1997 🙂
    Long live SeaMonkey!

  49. I really like Seamokey, I’ve been using it for over five years. I recently could not use whatsapp, I get an error message to update firefox. I embrace the family of all who contribute to this project, I hope it will not be difficult to correct. Thank you very much.

  50. You’ve always done great work :ewong … don’t beat yourself up over decisions Mozilla made over which you have no control.

    That said; I’m wondering why the link to the last working release is no longer accessible via the ppa?

    ~ $ sudo apt-key adv –recv-keys –keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com C1289A29

    Executing: /tmp/apt-key-gpghome.PgKgydeSXB/gpg.1.sh –recv-keys –keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com C1289A29
    gpg: keyserver receive failed: Server indicated a failure

    Are there any other accessible PPAs out there

  51. Hi,
    Any news about the SeaMonkey project state?

  52. hi
    any news to how thing goring?^^

  53. > any news to how thing goring?

    The builders have been set up for local building. We will do automation later to not delay the release any longer. Tests builds for all platforms including shiny new localized Linux x64 and Windows x64 builds were done. Won’t come next week not should not be much longer.

    Sorry for the delay be we are doing all we can do with the available resources (mostly us few).

    Latest status is here:
    https://wiki.mozilla.org/SeaMonkey/StatusMeetings/2019-05-26#Release_Train

    FRG

  54. Great news!
    Step by step…
    Regards

  55. As a Seamonkey user of over 10 years (and prior to that, Mozilla Suite and Netscape Communicator), I applaud your dedication in keeping the spirit of the original Communicator alive. Don’t give up, we love Seamonkey and we want it to live!

  56. It’s a good thing my favorite browser is still alive. Just switched to it yesterday from Firefox Quantum 🙂 Using it on a Mac as both a very stable browser and email client, and the great thing about the email is that it can be set to not automatically cache every single message like what Apple Mail does. Also I love the customizability that this browser has that most browsers seem to lack these days. Keep up the great work!

  57. ” SeaMonkey needs to completely stop relying on Mozilla’s infrastructure”
    Yes, this is a very good idea, today we, genuine independent developers and users realize how terrible some open sources project became a kind of open corporations for the interest of a few to control the internet tools.
    Btw, the entire economy is based on fake money, wrong interest, fake competition so be sure that at the end only the genuine and honest project (like seamonkey) will survive to the apocalypse. Keep it going and let’s federate our power together!

  58. I was just horrified to see SeaMonkey had been deleted from the FreeBSD ports tree on the pretext of being “unmaintained upstream”…has anything happened since that May 26th meeting?

  59. I figured something was up since Chrome and Firefox are no longer supporting XP. Yes, I am one of those xp holdouts…Thanks for all these wonderful years of SeaMonkey! THE BEST BROWSER EVER!! Flexible, customizable, nice. I hope you can keep it going. I’ve been using Seamonkey so long, I can’t remember how many years. 15 maybe, at least? Cheers to all of you. You’re the best!

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